tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post6467244056460290184..comments2024-03-28T15:19:47.515+08:00Comments on Tony White - Graffiti: Parenting and the use of adverse emotionsTony Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-30482678246024352322012-06-10T21:01:09.275+08:002012-06-10T21:01:09.275+08:00Bed time for this blogger. Hope you have a good w...Bed time for this blogger. Hope you have a good week. Maybe we can continue this discussion later.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-48341035859809068702012-06-10T20:53:22.882+08:002012-06-10T20:53:22.882+08:00Hi Tony, I can overthink things.
In terms of the ...Hi Tony, I can overthink things.<br /><br />In terms of the functional model I am asking what the different functions are. Do the FC and and AC function differently? Limit setting and support I think are easy to differentiate for the parent. The adult dealing with here and now reality makes sense too - except FC seems to mean dealing with the here and now also.<br /><br />As to archeopsyche, neopsyche and exteropsyche I find these awfully tricky because I am impressed by how much of our behaviour is learned. Though I suppose it would be possible to distinguish genuinely learned from introjected (just swallowed).<br /><br />I do own up to enjoying tight definitions (if useful).Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-32742856690848865442012-06-10T20:44:17.453+08:002012-06-10T20:44:17.453+08:00You maybe thinking too much Evan as to what ego st...You maybe thinking too much Evan as to what ego states are. <br /><br />With regards to the functional ego states which are FC, AC, NP, CP and A I think it is quite simple. What he did (Berne) was identify these aspects of the personality and simply placed them in the three circles. This lead to a very useable model which has been used since with all kinds of clients.<br /><br /> I am not sure if he ever said that is all the ways humans can function but my personal view is it is not. In particular there are things like spirituality and faith that I do not feel are capapble of being explained by the current ego states used. People have indeed wirtten a lot on this and endeavoured to explain them with other ego states or ways the ego states function.<br /><br />I think it was more he came up with a very useable model that worked and that is how it came about. Having said that however his very first ego state models only included the Child and Adult. It was some time later before he eventually added in the Parent ego state to his model<br /><br />TonyTony Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-24854982643578657772012-06-10T20:32:40.167+08:002012-06-10T20:32:40.167+08:00What I'm getting at is a child freely playing ...What I'm getting at is a child freely playing isn't in conflict with itself (has unity). But a child pleasing others may be suppressing their own needs (is split). Does this make sense?<br /><br />More information coming to light about something is different to judging that something it by its effect(s) or outcome(s). Does this make sense.<br /><br />I'm trying to get at what differentiates the ego-states. If it is just positive vs negative outcomes then there is no difference in the ego-states themselves. It is just which feelings, thoughts, behaviours are successful (or lucky?). Is this what the ego-states amount to?Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-15331170769445288942012-06-10T20:17:40.911+08:002012-06-10T20:17:40.911+08:00Yes that is true Evan and that is why sometimes on...Yes that is true Evan and that is why sometimes one would change their diagnosis of the ego state as more information comes to light.<br /><br />I am not sure what you mean by unitary. The FC and AC are meant to show the battle in the personality between the desire to move to health and the desire to self destruct, which all people are assumed to have. Just like Freud had the libido vs mortido and eros vs thanatos or the life instinct vs the death instinct<br /><br />TonyTony Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-18794631881508055512012-06-10T20:05:31.304+08:002012-06-10T20:05:31.304+08:00No, that leads to enormous difficulties. Judging ...No, that leads to enormous difficulties. Judging with regard to outcome means that the behaviour is not different at the time and so the person or observer could not decide whether a particular piece of behaviour was from FC or AC.<br /><br />How about FC is unitary and AC is split?Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-82858210348071454032012-06-10T19:58:25.231+08:002012-06-10T19:58:25.231+08:00Perhaps if it is put another way. The AC is that p...Perhaps if it is put another way. The AC is that part of the personality that will express self defeating behaviour and the FC is involved in health promoting behaviour. If the person is ignoring their own needs to excess then that would be AC. If they are putting their own needs second but that will result in a healthy long term outcome (ie not a damaged relationship) then that would be FC.<br /><br />Hope that helps<br /><br />TonyTony Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-89876561208758535022012-06-10T19:51:09.586+08:002012-06-10T19:51:09.586+08:00So if I understand correctly what you're sayin...So if I understand correctly what you're saying; the FC expresses needs and seeks satisfactions for itself while the AC ignores these needs and satisfactions to please others. Am I close?Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-24505289955031838312012-06-09T13:26:08.084+08:002012-06-09T13:26:08.084+08:00That is a good question Evan - does the FC learn a...That is a good question Evan - does the FC learn anything after being born. Yes it does as it gets more sophisticated in asking for what it wants or expresing its emotions as it gets older. So one could say that it uses some of the skills that the Adult ego state acquires as it gets older.<br /><br />Also on a side note you mention about learning language. The phrase pre-verbal is really a misnomer. As soon as the child is born it verbalizes its wants and needs. It does so by crying which is a verbalization. Mothers soon learn the bored cry, angry cry, the hungry cry, the 'i've got gas' cry and so forth. These of course are all verbalizations, as each mother and child develop their own unique language which only they understand. So the pre-verbal stage is not non verbal at all as the FC is speaking from day one but in only a langauage that it and mother understands.<br /><br />TonyTony Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-72390793831665315822012-06-09T08:15:13.865+08:002012-06-09T08:15:13.865+08:00Hi Tony. Thanks does this mean that the FC doesn&...Hi Tony. Thanks does this mean that the FC doesn't learn anything after being born? This would mean the free child can't speak - language is learned. This sounds wrong to me but I am just trying to clarify what the theory says - then I can decide whether I agree with it or not.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-36351836042666585712012-06-08T20:46:24.755+08:002012-06-08T20:46:24.755+08:00As the mother of three young boys, I want to throw...As the mother of three young boys, I want to throw in my favorite form of behavior modification--positive reinforcement! Never underestimate the power of a "hey, great job!" or a sticker chart. :-)chewing taffyhttp://chewingtaffy.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-74587402487757235012012-06-08T10:44:24.541+08:002012-06-08T10:44:24.541+08:00Hi Evan,
According to the theory we are born with ...Hi Evan,<br />According to the theory we are born with a Free Child aspect of the personality. That means the infant will be aware of its needs (in a very rudimentary form of course) and will take a course of action to have those needs satisfied when they become apparent. That is the child cries. So basically that is what we all do for the rest of our days.<br /><br />If however one develops a strong AC then our needs are not listened to so much or we stop asking for the need to be satisifed because we put others needs before our own. The person adapts to the needs of others as you suggest. The two little girls in the photogrpah may want to be up running around (their FC) but mother wants them to sit quietly. So they are adpapting to the needs of mother and putting their own needs secondary (their AC).<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />TonyTony Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07034697658099080220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3289688322615470169.post-80880340663619752252012-06-08T09:21:33.300+08:002012-06-08T09:21:33.300+08:00Hi Tony this is a bit of a tangent.
I'm wonde...Hi Tony this is a bit of a tangent.<br /><br />I'm wondering if the Free Child develops and if so how we distinguish the developed FC from the AC. Is it to do with the Adapted Child adapting to other people? Is it to do with the FC behaving in accord with the person's own desires and preferences? Both or something else again?<br /><br />This is one part of ego-states that I haven't wrapped my head around.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355215688351759230noreply@blogger.com